The Carnal Christian Heresy

Hebrews 12:14 (New American Standard Bible)New American Standard Bible (NASB)Copyright © 1960, 1962, 1963, 1968, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1995 by The Lockman Foundation
14(A)Pursue peace with all men, and the (B)sanctification without which no one will (C)see the Lord.

Hebrews 12:14 (English Standard Version)English Standard Version (ESV)The Holy Bible, English Standard Version Copyright © 2001 by Crossway Bibles, a division of Good News Publishers.
14(A) Strive for peace with everyone, and for the(B) holiness(C) without which no one will see the Lord.

Hebrews 12:14 (New King James Version)New King James Version (NKJV)Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord:

Question: Where would the so called "carnal Christian" stand here?

Sola Fida or Perish

Romans 2:6-7: He will render to each one according to his works: (7) to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

In the book of Romans, Paul begins to explain the gospel in Rom. 1:18 by first giving the bad news of the unrighteousness of men before God. He continues through Rom. 3:20 with the bad news of the sinful and helpless state of all men, both Jew and Gentile. After explaining the condition of all men before God in Chapter 1, he turns his attention to the Jews in Chapter 2. Although the Jewish people had the law of God, Paul makes it clear the law condemns them because they were unable to keep it. Thus, Jews and Gentiles are both in trouble in their standing before God.

In Rom. 2:5 Paul states that they are storing up wrath for themselves for the day when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed. He also says the Gentiles are in the same boat because, although they do not have the law, they by nature do what the law requires. In other words they have a God given sense of right and wrong. In Chapter 2 of Romans, Paul has not yet gotten to an explanation of grace alone through faith alone; therefore, he is talking about unbelieving Gentiles and unbelieving Jews. He is talking about unregenerate sinners who have not been saved by grace. In Romans 2:6, Paul explains their works will determine their eternal state. In verse 7 he is clearly talking about obtaining eternal life by works. This of course is a mission impossible as Paul goes on to state in Romans 3:20. Therefore, no one will be saved by their works and no one will be saved by Romans 2:7 since no one can merit eternal life through patience in well doing.

Once Paul begins to introduce the gospel beginning in Romans 3:21, he explains how Christians who have been regenerated and are in Christ by faith will NOT have their eternal destiny determined by their works. Believers will have eternal life based on being in Christ through faith (Romans 8:1), and not by their own works. They will be covered by the righteousness of Christ and justified by His righteousness. If they stood before God’s throne clothed in their own righteousness for judgment, they would suffer the same fate as unbelievers who do have to stand before God with their own righteousness.

Yet, many assert that Romans 2:7 is referring to both unbelievers and believers. They state that unbelievers will fail to have the works to receive eternal life, whereas believers will have works that demonstrate their faith is genuine. However, you cannot get away from the fact that this text in context is judging works for eternal life and not the genuineness of a person’s faith. So, to assert that this passage includes a believer’s works of sanctification is to say that God judges the genuineness of faith by works and awards eternal life based on works of sanctification. This is wrong, as eternal life is all grace and is a gift from God without works (Eph. 2:8-9). Certainly genuine faith comes from regenerated believers who produce works, and there is also a false dead faith as James explains in James 2:14, but Romans 2:7 is referring to God giving eternal life based on works. Paul explains to unsaved Jews in verse 12 that everyone who attempts to justify himself under the law will be judged by the law [works]. He states it very clearly in Romans 3:20 which launches him into explaining justification by faith alone.

Since the reformed faith holds that God knows those who are His (Romans 8:29-30) and affirms justification by faith alone, God certainly does not need to judge works of sanctification to determine who are truly elect. If Romans 2:7 could save even one person Sola Fida is untrue, and Paul would not have said in Galatians 3:2-3 Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? (3) Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? Later in Romans 8 Paul explains fully that the law kills and the Spirit gives life. Romans 8:1-2 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (2) For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. Being in the flesh and approaching God through one’s own works is spiritual death, but being in Christ sets one free from the law and being judged by one’s own works.

Justification is by faith alone and this precludes God’s judgment of works for eternal life through Romans 2:7 from applying to regenerated blood bought believers who are covered in the righteousness of Christ. TRUE FREE GRACE saves sinners totally and completely.

Any other thoughts?
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The believers at the Church at Corinth repented!

Some have recently used passages from 1 Corinthians to assert that there are carnal Christians that remain carnal without repenting or being sanctified in any way. By claiming that Christians can be all carnal all the time, they can assert that reformed theology is a works based theology since it affirms that repentance and sanctification are part of the Christian’s life. However, we see the following passage in 2 Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 7:9 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us.

The believers of the Church of Corinth repented. They did not remain carnal, but were convicted of sin and repented. This is exactly what reformed theology asserts. All the writers of the New Testament affirm the same principle. Lordship sanctification happens to all Christians unless they are providentially prevented from doing so!

Arminians, what do you think?

A blogger at a non-Calvinist Blog made the following statement that I would like to pose as a question to Arminian and non-Calvinists:

He said……. "I cannot tell you specifically why one individual believes in Him and one does not."

Can anyone answer why some believe and others don’t? Certainly Calvinists have an answer, but can anyone who is not a Calvinist give us an answer? Is it intelligence, goodness, common sense, spiritual discernment or something else?

Lordship sanctification is powered by God

The Old covenant kills because it relies on man power! The new covenant gives life because it is powered by God! God transforms his people into the same image. If a person is not being transformed by God through sanctification that results in discipleship and obedience, then he is not in Christ and he is in need of saving faith. If you consider yourself a carnal Christian, I urge you to pray that God would give you the gifts of faith and repentance. When these are granted, a person will then become a saved disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ and will have spiritual life that is powered by God rather than the flesh. For as the following passage points out, the flesh kills, but the Spirit gives life and it gives it now:

2 Corinthians 3:5-18 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, 6 who has made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses' face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9 For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory. 10 Indeed, in this case, what once had glory has come to have no glory at all, because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if what was being brought to an end came with glory, much more will what is permanent have glory.12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13 not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not gaze at the outcome of what was being brought to an end. 14 But their minds were hardened. For to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away. 15 Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their hearts. 16 But when one turns to the Lord, the veil is removed. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another. For this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

No lordship sanctification, no regeneration! No regeneration, no salvation!
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Regeneration Precedes Faith (by R.C. Sproul)

Regeneration Precedes Faith
By R. C. Sproul

One of the most dramatic moments in my life for the shaping of my theology took place in a seminary classroom. One of my professors went to the blackboard and wrote these words in bold letters: "Regeneration Precedes Faith."

These words were a shock to my system. I had entered seminary believing that the key work of man to effect rebirth was faith. I thought that we first had to believe in Christ in order to be born again. I use the words in order here for a reason. I was thinking in terms of steps that must be taken in a certain sequence. I had put faith at the beginning. The order looked something like this:

"Faith - rebirth -justification."

I hadn’t thought that matter through very carefully. Nor had I listened carefully to Jesus’ words to Nicodemus. I assumed that even though I was a sinner, a person born of the flesh and living in the flesh, I still had a little island of righteousness, a tiny deposit of spiritual power left within my soul to enable me to respond to the Gospel on my own. Perhaps I had been confused by the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. Rome, and many other branches of Christendom, had taught that regeneration is gracious; it cannot happen apart from the help of God.

No man has the power to raise himself from spiritual death. Divine assistance is necessary. This grace, according to Rome, comes in the form of what is called prevenient grace. "Prevenient" means that which comes from something else. Rome adds to this prevenient grace the requirement that we must "cooperate with it and assent to it" before it can take hold in our hearts.

This concept of cooperation is at best a half-truth. Yes, the faith we exercise is our faith. God does not do the believing for us. When I respond to Christ, it is my response, my faith, my trust that is being exercised. The issue, however, goes deeper. The question still remains: "Do I cooperate with God's grace before I am born again, or does the cooperation occur after?" Another way of asking this question is to ask if regeneration is monergistic or synergistic. Is it operative or cooperative? Is it effectual or dependent? Some of these words are theological terms that require further explanation.

A monergistic work is a work produced singly, by one person. The prefix mono means one. The word erg refers to a unit of work. Words like energy are built upon this root. A synergistic work is one that involves cooperation between two or more persons or things. The prefix syn -
means "together with." I labor this distinction for a reason. The debate between Rome and Luther hung on this single point. At issue was this: Is regeneration a monergistic work of God or a synergistic work that requires cooperation between man and God? When my professor wrote "Regeneration precedes faith" on the blackboard, he was clearly siding with the monergistic answer. After a person is regenerated, that person cooperates by exercising faith and trust. But the first step is the work of God and of God alone.

The reason we do not cooperate with regenerating grace before it acts upon us and in us is because we can- not. We cannot because we are spiritually dead. We can no more assist the Holy Spirit in the quickening of our souls to spiritual life than Lazarus could help Jesus raise him for the dead.

When I began to wrestle with the Professor's argument, I was surprised to learn that his strange-sounding teaching was not novel. Augustine, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Jonathan Edwards, George Whitefield - even the great medieval theologian Thomas Aquinas taught this doctrine. Thomas Aquinas is the Doctor Angelicus of the Roman Catholic Church. For centuries his theological teaching was accepted as official dogma by most Catholics. So he was the last person I expected to hold such a view of regeneration. Yet Aquinas insisted that regenerating grace is operative grace, not cooperative grace. Aquinas spoke of prevenient grace, but he spoke of a grace that comes before faith, which is regeneration.

These giants of Christian history derived their view from Holy Scripture. The key phrase in Paul's Letter to the Ephesians is this: "...even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have you been saved)" (Eph. 2:5). Here Paul locates the time when regeneration occurs. It takes place 'when we were dead.' With one thunderbolt of apostolic revelation all attempts to give the initiative in regeneration to man are smashed. Again, dead men do not cooperate with grace. Unless regeneration takes place first, there is no possibility of faith.

This says nothing different from what Jesus said to Nicodemus. Unless a man is born again first, he cannot possibly see or enter the kingdom of God. If we believe that faith precedes regeneration, then we set our thinking and therefore ourselves in direct opposition not only to giants of Christian history but also to the teaching of Paul and of our Lord Himself.

Regeneration (by J.I. Packer)

REGENERATION THE CHRISTIAN IS BORN AGAIN
by J.I. Packer

In reply Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” JOHN 3:3

Regeneration is a New Testament concept that grew, it seems, out of a parabolic picture-phrase that Jesus used to show Nicodemus the inwardness and depth of the change that even religious Jews must undergo if they were ever to see and enter the kingdom of God, and so have eternal life (John 3:3-15). Jesus pictured the change as being “born again.”

The concept is of God renovating the heart, the core of a person’s being, by implanting a new principle of desire, purpose, and action, a dispositional dynamic that finds expression in positive response to the gospel and its Christ. Jesus’ phrase “born of water and the Spirit” (John 3:5) harks back to Ezekiel 36:25-27, where God is pictured as symbolically cleansing persons from sin’s pollution (by water) and bestowing a “new heart” by putting his Spirit within them. Because this is so explicit, Jesus chides Nicodemus, “Israel’s teacher,” for not understanding how new birth happens (John 3:9-10). Jesus’ point throughout is that there is no exercise of faith in himself as the supernatural Savior, no repentance, and no true discipleship apart from this new birth.

Elsewhere John teaches that belief in the Incarnation and Atonement, with faith and love, holiness and righteousness, is the fruit and proof that one is born of God (1 John 2:29; 3:9; 4:7; 5:1, 4). It thus appears that as there is no conversion without new birth, so there is no new birth without conversion.

Though infant regeneration can be a reality when God so purposes (Luke 1:15, 41-44), the ordinary context of new birth is one of effectual calling—that is, confrontation with the gospel and illumination as to its truth and significance as a message from God to oneself. Regeneration is always the decisive element in effectual calling.

Regeneration is monergistic: that is, entirely the work of God the Holy Spirit. It raises the elect among the spiritually dead to new life in Christ (Eph. 2:1-10). Regeneration is a transition from spiritual death to spiritual life, and conscious, intentional, active faith in Christ is its immediate fruit, not its immediate cause. Regeneration is the work of what Augustine called “prevenient” grace, the grace that precedes our outgoings of heart toward God.

Regeneration part 4: Regeneration is 100% effective:

Romans 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

Those he called he also justified. Everyone God calls is justified (saved). Since everyone is not saved, then this passage indicates that God does not call everyone with this 100% effectual call. This same principle is also taught in John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. and John 6:65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” All who are quickened by God come and those who are not quickened cannot come to saving faith. They cannot because they are dead in sin and do not want to come (Eph. 2:1-5). However, those who are regenerated come willingly due to their changed nature. They come to repentance and saving faith by the power of God and that is why repentance and faith are gifts from God. This is TRUE FREE GRACE because God gives all that he requires for salvation. No one can boast by claiming their independent human decision made the final decision apart from God (Eph. 2:8-9). The error of resistible grace is that God calls and through independent human will, some come and some reject God. However, Many Scripture passages declare that God sovereignly intervenes and causes such a change through regeneration that men are irresistible drawn to faith in Christ.

Does man act and God respond or does God act and man respond? That is the bottom line of this debate and Scripture over and over asserts that it is God who acts and man who responds as is also shown in the following passages:

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

Acts 16:14 One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message.

Praise God that he acts and causes sinners to be born again by breathing spiritual life into a spiritual corpse.

Am I correct in my view that The Holy Spirit is perfect and undefeated in bringing sinners willingly to faith?

Or, does the Holy Sprit try bring 100% of all the people that ever lived to faith but and simply fails to get it done?
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Genuine faith and false dead faith!

James 2:14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

1) What good is it: What benefit or advantage is it.
2) my brothers: professing believers to whom James wrote.
3) if someone: The someone that James is speaking about here could be anyone anywhere and is not limited to this audience he called brothers. The whole world would be covered by James use of the term someone.
4) if someone says he has faith: James is speaking of a professed claim of faith. He did not say if anyone has faith, but if anyone SAYS he has faith. If he were speaking of a genuine faith he would not have a reason to have added the word “says”.
5) but does not have works?: The description is complete as James is talking about someone who claims to have faith but does not have works. The question is complete. James is asking about someone who claims to have faith, but gives no indication that he has been born again with the attributes that genuine true believers have when they are made into a new creation by the hand of God the Holy Spirit.
6) Can that faith save him?: The “that faith” James is referring to is not a genuine faith but a claimed false faith. This is a rhetorical question with the obvious answer of no. James is not contradicting justification by faith alone. He is making a distinction between how a born again spirit indwelled believer responds to grace and how a hypocrite who claims to have faith responds to a dead worthless false faith.

The obvious answer to the rhetorical question James poses is that such a claimed faith is no good because it is not genuine and does not save. However, genuine faith is wrought by the power of God in regeneration and saves completely. This leads to sanctification by a believer who has a new nature with new desires and a new attitude. All genuine believers are not only changed by regeneration, they are also led by the indwelling Spirit (Romans 8:14). As a result genuine believers will have attributes that are distinguishable from those who have a false dead faith.

Regeneration part 3: Regeneration precedes faith!

John 1:12-13 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, (13) who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

1) verse 12: Those who received Christ through faith are justified and adopted as children of God
2) verse 13: Explains how it happened by first telling how it didn’t happen. It didn’t happen by blood through ancestry. It didn’t happen by the will of the flesh, which is to say that unregenerate man cannot quicken his own nature. It didn’t happen by the will of man period. HOW did it happen? Those who believed were born of God. God had intervened and imparted spiritual life and a new nature (2 Cor 5:17). This is also shown in the following passages:

Colossians 2:13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

God made these sinners alive who were dead and unresponsive.

Ephesians 2:4-5 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

God acted and made dead sinners alive while they were still spiritually dead. Sinners do not make themselves alive and come to faith and then have God cause them to be born again and give them a new nature. This would be like a Doctor withholding treatment until a patient got well and then giving them the medicine they needed to be cured. No, without God’s regenerating cure of making sinners spiritually alive, sinners would not respond. However, all (100%) that God regenerates are brought to spiritual life and willingly respond in faith (John 6:37). Jesus compares regeneration to the wind in John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” No one knows where it comes from or where it is going. This rules out the view that man achieves faith and God responds by then being obligated to regenerate the new believer. This view contradicts Jesus and would amount to man getting himself born again by his own wise free will decision of faith. That is why Paul says in Romans 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.

If man controls his own regeneration, then Jesus would have said, “the wind blows where man decides by believing in me and we know it goes to all who believe in me.” But he didn’t. He said the wind like the Spirit goes where IT wishes. Brethren this is the TRUE FREE GRACE of the gospel of Jesus Christ. If you have not received this grace, then don't delay. Repent and believe in Jesus Christ today!

Any other opinions? Anyone?
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Carnal Christians?

Where did the idea that there are two kinds of Christians, carnal and spiritual, come from? It apparently originated in the mind of a dispensationist, yeah, that's right, a dispensationist. His name? L.S. Chafer.

Two kinds of Christians? Might just as well rewrite Romans 8 - you know, like put a whole lot of qualifying statements in there. For example: Romans 8:14 - For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are the sons of God... should read "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God (though some might go on to be carnal, and therefore this verse should not necessarily be used to define all Christians) these are the sons of God".

You get the point.

A great paper on the subject can be found here...
http://electexiles.wordpress.com/2008/05/06/history-of-the-lordship-salvation-controversy/

Happy reading!

Regeneration part 2: Regeneration makes a new creation:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

We learned from John 3:3 that regeneration is required for a sinner to be saved. Saved sinners are referred to as being in Christ. (Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.) What has regeneration accomplished in the sinner? Paul tells us in 2 Corinthians 5:17 that a saved sinner is a new creation. The old has passed away and the new has come. Paul is talking about a drastic change in a person’s life that is wrought by the Holy Spirit in a person’s very soul. He has a new attitude, desires, likes, and dislikes. Old desires and old ways of relating to the world have passed away. Paul said “IF” anyone is in Christ he is a new creation. It then follows, if anyone is not a new creation and is completely unchanged by his profession of faith, then he is not in Christ and he is not saved because he has not been regenerated. A new Christian may be immature for a while, but this will not be a permanent condition because of the indwelling Holy Spirit. (2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.) Believers are no longer enslaved by sin due to God’s work of regeneration and the indwelling Holy Spirit. The old has passed away. (Romans 6:6 We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.) God’s work of regeneration not only vanquishes the old, it brings in the new. (Romans 6:17-18 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.)

A Christian is a new creation who has been changed from a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness by the awesome power of God. It is a power that does not fail. To assert that a Christian can be unchanged and remain a slave to sin is not only unbiblical, it insults God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit!

Would anyone like to argue that regeneration is necessary, but may leave a true believer unchanged to wallow in his sin? Anyone?

Regeneration part 1: Regeneration is essential and is from God!

John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

It is clear from this passage that one must be born again to be saved and to even see the kingdom of God. If he can be saved without being born again, then this passage is in error. In verse 5 Jesus said, “The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.” Therefore, God must perform a spiritual work on a sinner in order for him to be saved (justified). From John 3 we can conclude the following:

1) Being born again (regeneration) is applied by God and men do not know from where it comes or where it goes.
2) One must be born again to see the kingdom of God.
3) One must be born again to be saved (justified)

Does anyone disagree?

Next we will look at the effects and power of regeneration.
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Why I Would Not Recommend Lou Martuneac's Books

http://indefenseofthegospel.blogspot.com/2008/07/summary-of-lordship-salvation-on-single.html

Atheist lodges valid objection if you are Arminian!

In the previous June 30 post, the following comment was left by the atheist and former pastor, John Loftus, of the Debunking Christianity blog:

This caught me eye. You see, the whole question is silly from my perspective. Let me briefly explain.

If there is no Christian God then of course I was never saved...and neither are you. This is what I now maintain.

If the question is whether I believed in Christ and the gospel message, professed it, and spread it, then I did. I believed the message even if now I claim the message is false and delusionary.

The only kind of Christians we ever see are professing Christians. As far as I can tell you are professing Christians, and that's all you can say about yourselves, even if the Gospel is true.

So to say I was never a professing Christian is obviously false, because I was, just like you. To say I have not committed the unforgiven sin goes against any good interpretation of the relevant biblical texts. But to say that a professing Christian who's faith was not just to the bone, but to the very marrow, means your God rejected me when I believed in him and accepted with everything in me the gospel of grace. That, my friends, is a callous and indifferent God unworthy of nothing more than disgust from me.

My response to his comment from a Calvinist perspective:

Thanks for your visit.
You said………….
But to say that a professing Christian who's faith was not just to the bone, but to the very marrow, means your God rejected me when I believed in him and accepted with everything in me the gospel of grace.

The contributors here are Calvinists. As such we do not believe in salvation as you describe it. Men through human decision do not accept the gospel of grace apart from God causing it through regeneration. Therefore, God does not reject those he effectually calls and gives the gift of faith. Your professed faith was not wrought by God the Holy Spirit and was a false faith. As you put yourself, it was a delusion. You have made a correct judgment about your faith being delusional and have assumed that everyone else with faith must also be delusional. Unless you are really an agnostic posing as an atheist, you have simply exchanged a faith in God for a faith in nonsense. To place your faith in an uncaused cause other than a supreme intelligent being is to embrace the ultimate in hocus pocus magic.

From an Arminian perspective a real problem is raised:

Arminianism asserts that faith precedes regeneration and once a sinner believes God, then He regenerates and causes them to be born again. This atheist is charging that God rejected him when he believed with everything in him. This is not a hypothetical situation. This is real and under the Arminian concept of salvation he has a valid complaint. He is basically saying that he did his part by believing and God failed to regenerate and change his heart.

I gave the Calvinist explanation to this real situation. The Zane Hodges theology answer is that he is saved even as an atheist.

Can anyone give me the Arminian answer to his objection? Anyone?

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